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Wednesday, November 18, 2009

Dogs on the bus?

Mountain Rides wants your opinion


By TERRY SMITH
Express Staff Writer

Mountain Rides Transportation Authority is seeking public input on whether dogs should be allowed on its buses.

"It is a dog town, so we definitely hear it from time to time," said Mountain Rides Executive Director Jason Miller. "It could cause some interesting challenges for us."

Mountain Rides is seeking public input on its services in a ridership survey available at www.mountainrides.org. The question about dogs doesn't ask whether survey respondents are favorable to the idea, but is only designed to gauge the degree to which it would affect their decisions. "Definitely, probably, maybe or wouldn't influence me" are the only response options available.

Miller reported that as of Monday, 55 percent of respondents had indicated that dogs on the bus would have no influence on their decisions. However, eight respondents wrote in the comment section of the survey that they would stop riding altogether if dogs were allowed.

Currently, the only animals allowed on Mountain Rides buses are certified service dogs for blind or otherwise disabled people, or animals confined in small, hand-held carriers.

Miller said Mountain Rides at this point doesn't plan on changing its policy, but added the dog question to the survey because of public suggestions that dogs should be allowed.

"The whole point of the survey is to get input on a lot of issues," Miller said. "Allowing dogs is one of those considerations that might get someone to ride or not to ride."

Terry Smith: tsmith@mtexpress.com


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There are 35 comments


The comments below are from the readers of mtexpress.com and in no way represent the views of Express Publishing Inc.
Idaho Central Scrutinizer
11/19/09 - 21:13

I want to live in a fido-friendly town, where my dog can sit happily next to me at the dinner table of any restaurant, receive a shave and a hair cut for under six bits, and make itself comfortably numb on a hypnotherapists couch, while larger humanity ponders double-reverse dog-psychology plots.

theidahokid
11/19/09 - 20:22

Meow, meow, meow-meow, meow meow meow-meow-meow-meow

kw – U.S.A.
11/19/09 - 18:00

wow...can we talk about nuclear power in Elmore Co now

east forker
11/19/09 - 07:13

I have a cat, and if dogs are allowed on buses, why can't we bring cats on too---we love our cats in this valley as much as our dogs......not to mention sheep--sheep are part of our culture more than dogs or cats and we all love sheep(they provide smart wool for our base layers..).

Reply to east forker
Juno
11/19/09 - 07:36

I don't have a cat and I don't have a dog but I am a smoker and if you can bring animals on the bus I think I should be able to do what I want, which is to smoke. I will crack the window and I will bring my own ashtray. Alot of my friends that ride the bus want to smoke too, so let us smoke and we will not bitch about your animals. Plus a beer now and then on the way home would really make us happy. Live and let live I always say.

Reply to east forker
Dan
11/19/09 - 10:40

Cats hate car rides - and dogs. It wouldn't work. Sheep? You and Juno really know how to ruin a good thing.

I'll stick with my car. Busses are for the ignorant masses.

Reply to east forker
Rodney
11/19/09 - 10:58

This is so cool! reminds me of traveling through South America a few years ago and the buses were loaded with chickens, goats and pigs. I Loved it. Let's do it!

Reply to east forker
animal bus
12/09/09 - 18:34

i have a pet rattle snake and she never gets to get out much...i would love to take her on a bus ride.

Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
11/18/09 - 21:08

Hi all, I have been following this issue for some time (in N. America and Europe), and hope you don't mind me chiming in with some comments on issues raised so far, starting with the oldest message:

* CIS: Maybe if this program gets going you can get some work writing brochures, etc. for it.

* Randy, I see the point of creating a worst-cast scenario but a - Dogs will be on the floor, b - Most dog owners would realise that any new service is a privilege - probably starting as a pilot - and will be really nice.

* KW: This idea comes up often but nearly all services which allow it do not have special places, the exception being some sleeper trains in Europe. Most people who use transit are used to negotiating perhaps imperfect public space, but of course more people should be neutral or positive than negative about riding a bus if there are dogs.

* Duffy echoes a popular sentiment that dogs are family members much more than animals (like the ones we eat). So shouldn't reasonably-behaved family members be allowed on transit which tax paying-families subsidize? (With restrictions....)

* Hailey Resident: First of all, nearly all operators (in N. America and Europe) require dogs to wear muzzles while on board vehicles. Since it is not common to see muzzles in Canada and the US, it is important to teach other people that it does not mean that the dog is dangerous. Also, from the current operations which allow dogs I know that any incidents are very rare. But also in Germany at least most dogs have insurance policies for that sort of thing. (So we make some work for insurance agents, but not lawyers).

CSBG and others: Federal law says nothing about pets on transit, only about assistance animals. You got most of the examples right but missed a couple:

"Small domestic pets are permitted on New York City Transit buses and subways and Long Island Bus only when they are carried in kennels or similar containers that can by accommodated by you on your lap without annoyance to other passengers.", so while "small" is not defined and theoretically one could carry a good sized canine, practically it is quite difficult.

You're right about Metro North, CATA and Boston (MBTA) but NJ Transit only allows "small pets in carry-on travel cages".

Other examples of dogs on transit are MUNI in SF, Metro in Seattle, Calgary Transit and TTA in Toronto (plus some connecting buses, and the carshare operator Autoshare).

(Responsible Dog Owner: Many states have or are working on anti-tethering laws. Idaho is not one of them, but state law says "No person shall willfully provoke,
mistreat, or abuse any dog or other animal while confined to its keeper's premises." So you need some expert to come by and check out the situation. A violation, is, unfortunately, only a misdemeanor.)

The bottom line with all dogs on transit policies is that the driver or staff always has the final say if a dog can come on board.

If Mountain Rides decides to do a pilot project I can help. Look for "Dogs on Board!" on my linked website.

Reply to Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
steve
11/18/09 - 22:02

Thanks so much for that Todd. Comments like yours really help.

Reply to Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
Responsible D
12/06/09 - 11:26

Well Todd, The so called "experts" have been called more than once and seem to have no interest in this animal. Of course these are the "that horse isn't starving" mentality group.
It's Sunday, 10 am and 2 degrees. I wonder how cold it got last night.
On a three foot line, it can't get much movement to warm up.
Maybe this is how animals are treated back in this guy's country?
We've written a bilingual letter to give to this guy explaining that he could drop the dog off at the hospice, since he evidently doesn't want the dog.
His son got it, can't keep it where he is, and dumped it here.
Pity one can't post photos in this comment section.
SV online wouldn't post a picture of it I posted.

Idaho Central Scrutinizer
11/18/09 - 20:58

To preclude problematic doggie-doo-doos in transit, Install fire-hydrants in the back of the buses, complete with modern drainage systems.

After doing so, futuristic dog-lovers maybe be inspired to further improve these systems to transform dog-waste into fido-friendly fuel for Ketchum Central's transit centers.

Responsible Dog Owner – Ketchum
11/18/09 - 15:36

I am a responsible dog owner.
Even though I really would love to have a dog, I don't.
It wouldn't be fair to the dog.
Like my neighbor, has a "pit bull" on a 3 foot rope outside for
23 3/4 hours a day. Sometimes he takes it up the canyon hunting. ?? It would be better for the dog if he came back without it.
He'll be pulling a corpse out from under the stairs where it lives as soon as the weather gets colder.

As far as canines on a bus, no thank you.
Unless it's in a pet carrier.

To the rest of you "responsible" owners, keep it on a leash in the park or take it to the woods. And PLEASE pick up the poop, because we know you don't. (at least bury it so I don't step in it) (read irresponsible)
I spent a lot of time and BB's training the local "responsible owners" pets on my property.

Luv you too :C) (not everybody loves your dog)

Rrrr, the neighbors dog is starting to howl because it's alone all day.

Reply to Responsible Dog Owner
steve
11/18/09 - 21:01

Report this creep to the authorities for animal cruelty.

Reply to Responsible Dog Owner
Responder
11/18/09 - 22:47

I agree with you Steve. "Responsible Dog Owner," I suggest one of those dog deterrents that outputs a high pitch sound. I just saw one for sale the other day disguised as a birdhouse so it won't ruin the aesthetics of your property.

Reply to Responsible Dog Owner
Steve
11/18/09 - 23:33

Responsible Dog owner is a dick for the BB's, but no, I was referring to the creep that keeps his dog tethered and alone all day,

Reply to Responsible Dog Owner
Huh?
11/19/09 - 06:50

Dear responsible dog owner,
Your first 2 lines are as follows..............
I am a responsible dog owner.
Even though I really would to have a dog, I don't.

My question is.....................
How can you be a responsible dog owner if you don't have a dog?

Just wondering............................

Reply to Responsible Dog Owner
Andy
11/19/09 - 14:48

Why don't you offer to help your neighbor and especially the dog and be a kind human being and walk the dog once in a while???

doglover
11/18/09 - 14:01

I am more annoyed by screaming rotten children than a well behaved pet! Yes, let em ride!

Noelle
11/18/09 - 12:05

Dogs have and do bite people around the valley on walks-seldom, but not uncommon...dogs have fights with each other on many of the local walking trails, especially in the winter when the walking trails are narrow. I just see a major problem with having territorial animals enclosed together in a confined space.
Many people are afraid of dogs. Other people are not interested in hair or slobber on the bus-or pee or poop. Reasonable, I think.
And I believe that the Federal Government already has public transportation rules in place that the Mountain rides system ought to abide by.

Reply to Noelle
CSBG
11/18/09 - 14:52

What you "believe" is wrong, the federal government allows pets to ride public transportation. If you have ever traveled to or lived in a city with FTA funded transit you would know this.

In NYC any animal is allowed on busses or subways if they are crated or muzzled and on a leash. Dogs are also allowed on the Metro North Railroad trains (another government funded transit agency) as long as they are on a leash...no muzzle or crate required. New Jersey Transit agency allows them as well.

CATA Bus system in State College PA is very similar to KART/Mountain rides but is on a much larger scale, and is also government funded and allows any pet on its system as long as they are properly restrained and dogs have to at least have a fabric muzzle on.

In Boston, yet ANOTHER government funded public transportation system...any pet is allowed on a train as long as it is properly restrained.

If what you "think" were true, to be a pet owner you would also have to own a car. If this is how you react to an animal on a bus I wonder how you would react to riding ANY subway in the USA. People are much dirtier and carry more diseases than animals.

To truly help the environment and get vehicles off the road people like you may have to learn to share their space with all creatures...or YOU could just drive.

Bob
11/18/09 - 10:59

I think that getting dog hair all over your clothes on the way to work would suck. Plus there are people that are allergic to dog hair and dander.

And trying to get down the aisle around big dogs would be a hassle. Then the idea of trying to evacuate a bus in an emergency loaded with dogs is scary.

I love my dogs but they don't need the taxpayers funding their public transit. Are the people at Mt. Rides that lacking in common sense?

SV Girl – Ketchum
11/18/09 - 10:45

It would be great if our dogs could ride the bus. If so, more of us would utilize the bus.

For those concerned about dog bites just consider how many locals have gotten bitten by dogs walking on a leash anywhere in the area. It just doesn't happen.

If dogs are to be eligible to ride the bus then a "dog fare" like a child fare would be reasonable and it also seems reasonable to require that dogs be leashed.

I vote YES to dogs being allowed on the local bus routes.

Frank Manzella
11/18/09 - 10:40

I understand that the Fed"s set they rule that no dog"s are to be on the bus. But only service dog"s can. Are you trying to go against the fed"s rules. If so, you may not get any Fed money, you are trying to get. I think you are making a mistake. YOU better watch it. ( X K.A.R.T. Bus Driver )

yourfingers – Idaho, Born
11/18/09 - 10:19

I say yes, let them ride. IF, the dog is properly muzzled and leashed for protection and control, pays the ride fee as others do or an additional pet fee, and as long as the owner is responsible for the dogs inherit unhuman character flaws. Not to say that an all day ride with it's head out the window for the days outing would be tolerated. Also if the dog is dirty/smelly/unpleasent to be around or uncontrollable, then it's not allowed and/or out the door on the spot. Again, the owner needs to be a thoughtful and responsible to meet the condition(s) of the animal. A limit on the ratio of pets to owners, regular passengers, assessable hours would need consideration. I would also add that cat's, bird's, and other household pets with the same conditions applying.

If society wants to encourage mass transit then there needs some give and take by all. So why not give a trial run to see if there is a need.

Common sense may just run amuck.

cosmic surfer
11/18/09 - 09:05

This is a joke, right?

Idaho Central Scrutinizer
11/18/09 - 08:57

My pet goat - Dubya - wants to hop on the bus, Gus:

www.cnn.com

duffy
11/18/09 - 08:41

Dogs are apart of most of our lives, getting around with them is a must. This has been a dog friendly area before the time of Hemingway and Cooper, so I you don't like it there is a town for you..... Aspen, enjoy the walk.

Reply to duffy
Hailey Resident
11/18/09 - 08:46

One dog bites ONE! person and I would like to represent them in court. How do you spell $ liability?

kw – hailey
11/18/09 - 07:46

yes-free the dogs.Maybe a no-dog section for dog challenged people.

Central Idaho Scrutnizer
11/17/09 - 18:53

Clearly, this valley is for the dogs. Not only should we encourage dogs to ride buses, we should also crack the bus windows open a squinch, to enliven their rides, and so that other dogs traveling up and down the valley may see how well we accept them here.

On top of that, it would be most refreshing to see some dogs competing in a fiery card game at Whiskey's the moment it opens.

Reply to Central Idaho Scrutnizer
Randy
11/18/09 - 07:14

I would definately refuse to get on a bus if dogs were allowed. Is it not bad enough that we have to tolerate everyone's dog trying to "greet" us at the Post Office and grocery store doorway? Or deal with someone's stinky dog at the park when trying to have a picnic meal with kids? And of course, trying to pick out a spot at the park that has not been recently used by a dog as a toilet?
Do we let the majority dog people ruin yet another aspect of a previously wonderful place to live? I don't want to sit in a bus and end up covered in dog hair and slobber. The bus system is a great alternative to individual transportation, let's keep it open to ALL people, and keep the door closed to animals.

Reply to Central Idaho Scrutnizer
D
11/18/09 - 12:03

You just made a great point. Dog haters would have to walk!

Reply to Central Idaho Scrutnizer
doglover
11/18/09 - 14:07

Randy...get a clue! Dogs at the park, are you seriousley complaining about that? Oh, newsflash everyone! Lets all cater to poor poor Randy! Lets all forget that what has ruined this valley is rude selfish people and programs like dual immersion. Lets quite gripping about dogs randy, and start complaining about the fact that we are catering to mexicans who refuse to respect our culture and SPEEK ENGLISH!

Oh yeah, stay inside if you can't handle a dog...I'd rather a million dogs than your snotty butt in a park any day!

Reply to Central Idaho Scrutnizer
Randy
11/21/09 - 08:44

Doglover,
Wow, such harsh words from someone who doesn't SPEAK our language very well. Learn to spell, go back to Dual immersion school where you obviously excelled at English and language skills, and keep your dirtbag of a dog off the bus, it stinks as bad as your breath.

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