| TALK BACK: Now you can add YOUR comments about this article. |
print version
email
print version
email
Showing 1-95 of 535 Comments
The comments below are from the readers of mtexpress.com and in no way represent the views of Express Publishing Inc. 11/07/09 - 14:32
You lobophobes make money off your hatred toward wolves! Let the wolves live! 11/02/09 - 22:08
I think London's ignorance is showing. Maybe he better do a little more research. FACT: Before people began making profit by ranching, people and wolves got along fine. It is our greed, and our ignorance, and worse: our never ending blood-lust that screams for one more opportunity to destroy life. These animals lived, ate, balanced the eco-systems in which they lived long before we showed up. The elk made it through then, just as they do now. We refuse to learn from our mistakes and we just keep repeating it. if we would leave the enviornment alone it balances itself. Every single time we make an "intelligent" decision nature shows us we are ignorant of her wisdom. 11/02/09 - 23:44
Leah...where is Miles City...is that in the state of delusion>>? 11/04/09 - 23:02
RESPONSIBILITY It seems we only preserve something so that in the future we can cause it's later destruction. All of it circling around the monetary gains of our government, and it's citizenry. This all seems fine on the surface except that because of our foolishness global warming is a reality. When will we learn that the "wisdom" of man is foolishness unto God. God made all things that we should be HIS steward and CARE for HIS creation. He did not give us license to destroy it. He did not bless His creation to watch us destroy the very perfect gift he placed into our safe keeping. Instead of caring for, and preserving his masterpiece we place value on a monetary system that is sure to fade to black. Instead of cherishing the sunrise, and viewing nature's celebration of another day...we see each day as a means to an end. We have lost the spirit of God, in the rush to greedy self-indulgence. Instead of being watchers of this planet we have, and continue to, argue over our right to, essentially annihilate ourselves. For by now we should know that to destroy life on this planet will eventually lead to our own demise. We have raped the earth and all it's creatures and she is crying out in despair. We choose not to listen. We choose instead to turn our backs, becoming complacent to her needs. Trust me that in doing so, one day we will wake to find she is utterly deaf when it comes to ours. Leah 11/05/09 - 21:27
Leah we have some common ground i think..And I'm glad you brought GOD into the equation....And speaking of creation...Thats one reason animals were created...For men to manage and use for food....We are managing the wolf to preserve a renewable protien source (elk)....I don't expect you to be able to see outside of your emotional cloud....but don't speak for GOD...we are doing what we were created to do...Hunt, manage and balance resources.... 11/01/09 - 15:09
Long live Idaho's wolves! 10/30/09 - 20:00
A Wolf pack kills Three or more elk a night" (not counting pregnant cows aborting because of being run and stressed.) 10/30/09 - 23:19
Where do you get this info? 10/31/09 - 08:20
Eye witness accounts, including my own. and the rare government employee who tells the truth under their breath, as well history of the wolf speaks for it self. Simple, do cow elk get pregnant ? do wolves chase them ? will this violent chase cause the cow elk to abort ? As well the government reports concerning Yellowstone's wolves show each wolf is killing 18-36 elk per year, that is each wolf. It is a waste land out there, dead elk dead on the ground year round rotting with only small bits eaten.. And then your pissing and moaning about this legal hunt is stupid, the government has culled over 100 wolves since these hunts began, why do you suppose the government is trying to cull the wolves. Next up are endangered Idaho elk. I.D.F.G. has changed their regulations dramatically WHY ? Also they are 7 million under budget from lost revenue, WHY ? Because a lot of hunters told them to stick it.. This is a wolf-elk debacle is a wreck.. 10/30/09 - 18:37
Jon Duval Isnt it time to stop the articles about the wolves not everyone wants to here or read this crap day-in and day out give it a flippen rest its doing No One any good that i can see. 10/30/09 - 17:13
Isn't anyone tired of this bloodbath? 10/30/09 - 17:04
Why don't you lobophobes show your true names? Cowards. 11/07/09 - 18:55
Because both sides in this idiotic game hijack each other's names and print falsehoods. This is a stupid discussion that serves no other purpose than to attract eyeballs to this website. What's your last name, "Anthony?" See? You're doing it, too! Gotcha! 11/07/09 - 23:37
Anthony Sibilla, wildlife advocate. Pleased to meet you. 10/30/09 - 08:24
Hitler was a Roman Catholic, leftist, and environmentalist, he actually would approve of this wolf reintroduction, he was all about laying waste to the lands inhabitants. This time around the heretic will not be safe hiding in the forest, I bet Roman Catholic Hitler wished he thought of putting wolves in the forests prior to chasing the Heretical Jews into them. 10/30/09 - 17:00
Hitler killed Catholics along with Jews. The Catholics were the second most persecuted community during Hitler's reign. Shut up, wildlife Nazi. 10/30/09 - 18:21
Superior General Wlodimir Ledochowski's War Culpability Admission The Book Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII by John Cornwell is instructive. It shows how the Pope stopped Catholic resistance to Hitler and how the Catholic church supported the Nazi regime Also, in regard atheist's involvement,it was irrelevant to Hitler's ideology and actions. It cannot be forgotten that Hitler used Christian rhetoric and imagery in his speeches. In April of 1922 Hitler said, ""My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." He also stated, "The Ten Commandments are a code of living to which there's no refutation. These precepts correspond to irrefragable needs of the human soul." The Catholic Church's history of antisemitism and willingness to persecute and kill Jews was integral in its willing complicity of Hitler's crimes. You shut up. 11/01/09 - 15:05
London, you're a f**king ignorant redneck. The Catholics strongly opposed Hitler. Go to hell, Greg Farber, along with the other Nazis and murderers! I rebuke you to the foot of the cross! 11/07/09 - 18:35
" Rome (Vatican) is in constant conspiracy against the rights and liberties of man all over the world (via it's U.N. and CFR); but she, (the whore catholic church) is particularly so in the United States". ---Charles Chiniquy 1886, ex priest of Rome, deceived freemason. Rebuke all you want to at the foot of the cross of death, you're judgment at the foot of the white throne awaits you.. Name calling won't work there either. 10/30/09 - 01:50
If lobophobes were Nazis, Ron Gillett would be Hitler. 10/30/09 - 01:49
If lobophobes were Nazis, Ron Gillett would be Hitler. 10/29/09 - 10:16
Idaho is not Yellowstone National park. Idaho has never been overpopulated with elk and deer in State history. There is no historical or modern day proof that wolves only kill the diseased ungulates. The fact is they kill pregnant does, and cows, they kill new born fawns, and calves. They kill Bucks and bulls tired from the rutting season, they kill ungulates trapped in deep snows. And over population of wolves is the problem in Idaho.. And those wolves are wiping out ungulates. This hunt changes nothing, this disaster will continue, and more and more hunting opportunity's will vanish, just as has been happening, the state hunting regulations prove it. This is about the loss of activities and freedoms. Nothing more nothing less. This stupid cross bred hybrid mongrel imitation wolf is a political football.. 10/28/09 - 16:13
just like the name, I want you guys to get a clue. You say that we don't understand the ecosystem and yet you say that an ecosystem with wolves is death sentence for deer and elk? I agree with some types of hunters who hunt for meat and also to survive, but killing a wolf for 'fun' is not respectable. Not to me. Also I want to tlak to you people who want all wolves eradicated from Idaho, or Alaska or just all of them in the states. Wolves needed in an ecosystem. For one, they are needed due to tough winters. Would you rather that most of the deer and elk starve to death? Human hunters woluld never kill enough to stop them from starving. I'm also sure that alot of people would never agree with your view soo, It would never work. Peace. 10/28/09 - 18:14
The fish and game agency is 7 million under budget, that's from lost revenue, that is a lot of hunters not hunting bubba, go travel around to all the known winter ranges which held elk for the last fifty years and explain to us dumb shits where they went then. Elk and deer have starved in the winter for centuries, guess what ?? To many unmanaged Wolves starve to death to, you said all wolves gone, we said just a few of them gone, 220 to be exact, the rest will starve and die, on you ! 10/28/09 - 20:54
What do you mean "it would never worked"....It has worked for over 50 years...show me documentation of loads of elk or deer starving to death in Idaho....That does NOT happen..Hell we dont even get much snow anymore... 10/29/09 - 07:55
When our ancestors came here they killed off mostly all of the wolves. Deer and elk do starve to death during winter due to an overpopulation of them. What you lobofoes need to understand is that when our ancestors killed off all the wolves the eliminated a top tier predator and one that also helped rid the herds of diseases. Deer and elk starve to death and today there aren't as many hunters as there used to be. By supporting wolves I am helping you guys keep deer and elk popus healthy. I don't support wolf hunting. Nor, would I shoot a wolf but I think if you are gonna hunt it at least respect it first. A lot of you guys haven't given the wolves that sort of respect. So learn to. peace. 10/29/09 - 09:39
Gosh those scientists from those ancient days were smart when they concluded the wolves managed elk and deer herds and only took out the sick and weak, amazing ain't it ? And they came up with this theory before the invention of vaccines or the discovery of germs, they musta been gods. Of course back then elk wintered on the plains, so did deer, no deep snows to try and run through to escape predators. Now we landlocked with a thingy called rural real-estate and modern travel, oops, and we want to compare landlocked creatures in deep snows with less nutrition to those creatures of the plains. Those poor wolves of centuries past never had it so nice. Weak ungulates includes new born calves, pregnant cows, post rut bulls, pitting post rut bulls is equal to asking the NFL to play seven days a week.. And then wondering why they all died before the Stupor Bowl...Of course modern scientists have invented this thesis that ancient wolves only killed the diseased sick and the weak ungulates, thus keeping those herds healthy, survival of the fittest, sounds like that evolutionary hoax bunkum to me.. You believe your religion and I'll believe mine.. 10/28/09 - 03:59
Thanks, Lynne Stone, for all you are doing to help the wolves. Its amazing the number of ignorant people out there, and full of hatred for an animal that absolutely belongs here. 10/28/09 - 15:21
Snobr9, 10/28/09 - 15:33
Giggle 10/28/09 - 20:57
I also want to thank Lynne...Due to all her research and bragging on the internet...i have planned my wolf hunt map....keep the info flowing Lynne..I think i will even be able to call the wolves by name before i drop the hammer on them... 10/30/09 - 17:22
"Thanks Lynne? For what breaking the law!" Excuse me, lobophobe. You are committing crimes against nature! Murder should never be a solution. There are not many wolves and so much deer and elk. Wolves need to kill so they can keep their herds healthy. Let there be more wolves in Idaho and less wildlife terrorists like you! 10/24/09 - 11:00
A closed-door Commission session was held in which the Commissioners were apparently informed of legal complications they might encounter if they managed wolves to benefit Idaho citizens. Whether or not that information is completely accurate, the Wolf Management Plan announced by Groen and Power clearly violates Idaho Wildlife Policy (I.C. Sec. 36-103). … Not controlling wolves in Idaho wilderness just as they are not controlled in national parks will ultimately result in the same depletion of big game and other prey species and rapid turnover in wolf packs. It is important to remember that Idaho law requires F&G to manage wildlife to provide continued supplies for hunters, fishermen and trappers to pursue and harvest – but it is being ignored. Pretending that limiting the number of hunters who can harvest wildlife is somehow providing continued supplies of wildlife for all hunters to harvest (sustained yields) is absurd. Limiting harvest opportunity for everyone is a last resort tool that must be used when all of the other wildlife management tools at the Commission’s disposal have failed to halt population and harvest declines. Ignoring the studies indicating that wolves kill two to three times as many prey animals as they can consume, the wolf advocates promoted the lie that wolves kill only what they can eat. The Wolf EIS estimated the average wolf would kill only 12 big game animals per year in YNP – including both elk and deer. All subsequent studies in YNP found the elk kill per wolf per year has averaged between 18 and 36. Un-refuted evidence of IDFG and FWS providing the erroneous information to Congress to justify wolf reintroduction was included in the hearing record of a Congressional Investigative Committee. Also included was an Aug. 12, 1994 letter from Bangs to FWS’s Charles Lobdell insisting that he de-emphasize the wolves that already existed in Idaho and thus show unanimous FWS support for reintroducing Canadian wolves. In that letter Bangs changed the definition of a confirmed wild wolf to be protected under the ESA to any animal that looks and acts like a wolf and has either survived in the wild or reproduced in the wild. He boldly asserted that neither domesticated wolves nor wolf-dog hybrids can survive in the wild and said any animal that has been observed to survive is “confirmed” as a wild wolf. By providing that new definition, Bangs ignored 20 years of scientific deliberation during which the FWS Deputy Solicitor ultimately determined that only the distinct subspecies known to have inhabited an area could be reintroduced to satisfy ESA requirements. Bangs paved the way to protect and propagate assorted wolf-dog, wolf-coyote and wolf-wolf hybrids in the Western Great Lakes and Northern Rocky Mountains Wolf Recovery Areas. … But during a recently completed 2-year study, evolutionary biologists Leonard and Wayne genetically tested 68 of those wolves and found that none of them were the Eastern Timber Wolf (Canis lupus lycaon) that existed when they were listed as “threatened” in Minnesota. They found the wolves were crossbred with local coyotes (Canis latrans) and Eastern Canadian Wolves (Canis lycaon) or combinations from crossbred offspring. Only 31% of the wolves tested had any Eastern Timber Wolf genes and none were purebred. Yet all of the genetic samples taken and preserved from Eastern Timber Wolves from the early 20th century tested purebred with no evidence of crossbreeding with coyotes or other wolves. When confronted with this information by the news media in November 2007, FWS Eastern Gray Wolf Recovery Team Leader Rolph Peterson (Bangs’ Great Lakes counterpart) admitted they had known all along that the wolves were crossbreeding with coyotes. When one of the evolutionary biologists suggested the wolves should be re-listed, FWS Wolf guru David Mech responded, “It is not clear what would be gained by keeping the Midwestern wolf population on the endangered species list.” Mech continued, “Whatever their genetic identity, there are over 4,000 wolves in the population, they are increasing rapidly, and are legally protected by the states.” From the statements by Bangs in Aug. 1994 and Peterson and Mech in Nov. 2007, the willingness of FWS wolf biologists to ignore the intent of the ESA and deceive Congress and the American public cannot be denied. 10/24/09 - 16:18
That is some interesting information. Could you please site a reference or link? 10/24/09 - 17:14
It is excerpted from a George Dovel Expose called " What They didn't tell you about wolf recovery". 10/27/09 - 15:56
Thank you London for the link, it will get passed along to many people. 10/24/09 - 10:31
Once again wolflover, your comments just prove my point about the wolf-worshipper propaganda. You should be proud, you are certainly well programmed!! 10/24/09 - 11:38
Yeah, I do worship wolves. I thought this was a country that didn't matter what religion you were. I have no religion so every sunday I go out to watch wolves. Is this a crime? I am aloud to think what I want too. You can't hate someone for their opinions. I think for myself. I have a clue! At least I worship something real! Its science baby! 10/24/09 - 14:09
Right on wolfy lover baby you tell em like it is.. That's why I go out and celebrate my religion to by shooting a wolf, sacrificing the beast of your love..Oh baby It makes me feel so gooooooooood !!!!!! Wanna hook up ? 10/24/09 - 16:51
No. I don't date losers. You should get a real life. 10/24/09 - 05:17
Somethings will never change like the ignorant attacks on Stone. Some of you will not face the facts that wolves are needed in the system. Its easier to turn Stone into a demon. No reason to mention who you are. The ignorant, like feces will float to the bottom. One day soon Molloy will set the record straight by restoring the ESA for wolves. This inturn will turn these ignorant people into criminals. The heat/demonazation will be transfered from Stone to Molloy.They will continue to kill these wonderful creatures. So much hate based on hate! While all the time hiding behind a cowardly interent name. 10/24/09 - 09:51
Lynne Stone and the rest of the wolf worshippers have brought it on themselves. You Marc have bought into the propaganda as well. You worshippers have attempted to turn the wolf into a god like creature and have it untouchable. The only value you give the elk is the same as a bait fish. I value the elk over the wolf, so does my opinon count less then yours? It seems so, because the worshippers claim to be at some higher enlightenment level simply because they "love the wolf". You have many more wolves then the original plan called for. You speak of "balance", then let the balance happen, with proper management. Keep those misguided emotions flowing though, Lynne needs a job and the wolfworshipper groups needs your hard earned money. 10/24/09 - 10:07
Wow, DG if you like the elk more then you should probably try to understand the ecosystem a little bit. Wolves are a needed predator. Do you want your elk to die off due to overpopulation and illness? Without the wolf that is what will happen. Elk will overpopulate the area and then more hunters will go out and kill them. I understand why you want to do this. Its because you want the economy in Idaho to go up. But do you want to eat sick elk meat? Wolves help prevent the spread of illnesses and mostly kill weak, sick and young. Can't say the same for the elk hunters. So you can say that I care about the elk more than you do because I put some of my money into wolfe reintroduction. Wolves aren't the only reason for elk and deer decline either like most lobo haters think. Its not all their fault so quit saying it is! 10/27/09 - 12:11
Marc, 10/22/09 - 12:25
What everyone seems to have forgotten is the animals were placed here first. God created man to be the zookeeper of his garden. Protect and care. Not kill. All the talk of comitting genocide against the wolf is on the same level as Hitler against the Jews. All predators have a role in nature. They are God's herd health insurance policy. Wolves target the weak and sick. The strong survive. Can't say the same for humans. The deep hatred of wolves was brought over from Europe. Native Americans honored the wolf as well as all animals created. Humans have disrupted the natural balance and seek to have the elk for their target practice and mounted on walls. We have cattle for food and farmers provide grain. Hunting is recreaction, not a necessity (for most humans). If people of the planet would look beyond money and instant gratification, and keep hands out of the cookie jar, nature would put itself back in balance. 10/22/09 - 14:14
Appy....In 40 years in Idaho I have never once seen a "sick" elk...I have however witnessed wolves killing newborn "healthy" calves as well as healthy mature herd bulls in deep snow....Also "healthy" cow elk in the process of giving birth....Targetting the weak and sick is a myth started by EnvironWackos....It is obvious you aren't from or spend any amount of time in Idaho...Stick to what you know....It certainly isn't wolves...Nature and the ecosystem were balanced before the wolf...And folks with half a brain are working to restore that balance...Native americans killed more wolves than anybody...where do you think they got their wolf hides from...Walmart>>? 10/22/09 - 17:29
Wow JJ 10/22/09 - 17:50
If the Elk herds had as many sick and weak members as the wolf worshippers claim ("they only kill the sick and weak"). The herds would have disappeared LONG ago. The sportsmen and conservation groups, took a depleated wildlife resource and through MANAGEMENT, SCIENCE and time, have restored the wildlife herds to high levels. Now the wolf worshippers decided though misguided emotional fantasies that the wolf is much more important and god like over all the rest of the wildlife and should not be managed at all. 10/23/09 - 22:39
Genocide....WTH...the seasn has been open now for 3 months...and we aren"t even close to the 220 cap set by fish and game...Proving once again you spend your time blindly listening to the "slaughter" rhetoric predicted by the wolfy crowd...wakup sweety....the only thing that has disrupted our natural balance here is canis muttus....go feed some phesants and misread the Bible some more.....you are clueless to the situation we are facing in the west.... 10/22/09 - 07:19
"Wolves will NOT kill all the elk, like what you lobo-foes believe. The ecosystem needs wolves to reduce numbers of sick animals so the wolves could survive and the elk could have healthy offspring. To you brainless lobophobes, the wolves are trying to kill all the elk. You call them "wildlife terrorists" and "land pirahnas". That is completely opposite of what they are. They are very important in maintaining a stable ecosystem. The truth is if there were enough wolves to keep the environment healthy (which there AREN'T), then both wolf and elk will benefit each other." --Anthony. Elk numbers in the Lolo and Sawtooth elk management zones are seriously depressed – by wolf predation. The science (years of high quality elk and wolf population radio-telemetry data) is clear. Wolf predation is depressing elk production well below what we should expect for the habitat quality in those zones. Elk habitat quality was following a natural, declining trend after the 1910 fires. The depressed elk production and the factors contributing to that depression is a combination of habitat quality AND substantial wolf predation on productive cow and calf elk. The Lolo and Sawtooth Zones the recent, sharp decline in elk productivity and recruitment I referred to is due to wolf predation of productive cows and their calves, not hunting mortality. The radio-telemety data we have for cows and calves in those zones gives us the fate of each collared elk and allows us to accurately estimate the wolf predation rate of cows and calves. Having good baseline data for these elk populations from previous years, including hunting harvest data, we can say with certainty that wolf predation has pushed elk production and recruitment in these two zones below levels that have required substantial reductions in the elk hunting opportunity that was allowable with essentially the same habitat when wolves were introduced. HOW we manage this new wildlife population dynamic (elk-wolf) and the necessary changes in public uses and benefits of those resources is of course our challenge.--- Mark Gamblin -----South West Director Idaho Fish and Game..August 15, 4:08 pm So we need more wolves according to Anthony, and then everything will be ok, more wolves equals more elk, well let me see here, all through the 1970s-80s, and early 90s, the Zones Gamblin mentions above did have a few wolves, several people saw them, as well elk were plentiful. Now comes the 1995 reintroduction, of wolves, 14 years later those zones have more wolves, a lot more wolves, and guess what, we have elk tags taken away from us due to to many wolves, the Zones mentioned above lost the opportunity of cow elk permits two years ago, maybe three years ago, as well when I find fifty cow elk, the cow to calf ratio 30% to the negative. Good luck finding a bull elk. The zones mentioned above have more wolves and a lot less elk. And in fact wolves are fighting and killing one another in these areas as well, IDFGs words not mine.. This proves Anthony is not being honest with himself, or others. As well units 43-44-48-49 are and always have been controlled hunt units for elk, meaning a limited number of available tag opportunity's to hunt elk in those units, now 14 years after wolves have been reintroduced just in the last two years those units elk declined by 20%, I stopped putting in for the 48 bull permit four years ago, my summer scouting outings proved to me over predations by wolves had been occurring in these units as well.. This once sought after elk tag in 48 is ruined, I would not take that elk permit if IDFG payed me to take it and payed me to hunt this unit.. By the continued offering of no proof to support their belief, only the name calling, "redneck", " Lobo Phobe" and willing legal code violations committed by Lynne Stone out in the field as admitted by her, their credibility is of no use what soever.. As well the thesis of more wolves will make things better for the eco systems is false, and the last fourteen years in the Sawtooth Zone Proves it hands down.. Anthony is worshiping creation and not the Creator.. Pantheism. Obviously he walks with some one, it certainly is not Jesus Christ.. 10/22/09 - 12:34
London, NO FAIR quoting facts!! The wolf worshippers will never believe anything that is not of their misguided emotional fantasy! 10/24/09 - 00:24
Jesus Christ is my savior and I am Roman Catholic! Unlike you redneck lobophobes, I actually admire the beautiful wolves that God created. I do NOT worship wolves, I worship the one who created them for us to admire and coexist with. Here's a question: would Jesus buy a wolf tag? 10/24/09 - 05:25
Anthony, Cool man, so you're riding on the back of that beast with a whore, enjoy the ride. 10/24/09 - 12:07
Say whatever you want. It will not change the way I look at God's Creation. 10/24/09 - 14:55
Perfect, and I will never change how I base decisions based on real evidence. 10/22/09 - 09:15
WOW Lynne! That is a bold statement! I will forward this to the fish and game. Let's see how they like it! Your openly stating your hazing the Wolves! Not a good idea! 10/22/09 - 12:39
Thank goodness I'm a teacher. I present love and care of wildlife to the students in my biology, ecology, physics, chemistry classes. You can stomp and scream and threaten, but I will enlighten one young mind at a time. Education with intelligence eventually will correct years of shallow, close mindedness. 10/22/09 - 14:05
Appy... 10/22/09 - 16:28
JJ, Genesis 1:20. It is obvious, education is not your forte. Anger and resentment can be heard in your posts. Whatever happened in your past has damaged you. Do not vent your anger on an animal that is doing what it is supposed to do. Killing wolves won't kill the anger in your life. 10/22/09 - 17:08
Appy...finally we can agree on a couple points....Yep I am angry that feds introduced an "experimental" top tier predator to idaho...Sportsman have worked hard in this state to to produce healthy ungulate herds... Resentful that out of state uneducated wolf lovers think they have a say in Idaho's state wildlife management....My therapy: Killing wolves...yes it makes me happy 10/23/09 - 12:38
I heard you were shooting from the highway; Hope it works out and you can get locked up, then you can get some help for your mental issues as well! 10/21/09 - 16:23
Still offering $100 for pics of phantom or basin butte dead wolf pics.....Post kill date and hunter name and email addy...I will verify and cut a check....good luck!!!!! 10/20/09 - 21:01
"DG, do you think at all? There is no reason to kill 220 of 1000 wolves just because you lobophobes think they "kill more than they need to". I don't worship wolves. Neither of us anti-lobophobes do. We want them to multiply. You want to bring them to extinction. If all the wolves were gone, the ecosystems will collapse. Get the picture?" Well Anthony you certainly proved my point you only think with your emotions. Dont ever let any truth or facts enter your thoughts. 10/20/09 - 22:41
Before you rednecks came into the west, everything was peaceful and in order. There were hardly any ecological problems. Then, as a result of moving westward, you came and killed all of the wolves. Wolf reintroductions are necessary for the sake of America's ecosystems. Let the wolves live! Wolves will NOT kill all the elk, like what you lobo-foes believe. The ecosystem needs wolves to reduce numbers of sick animals so the wolves could survive and the elk could have healthy offspring. To you brainless lobophobes, the wolves are trying to kill all the elk. You call them "wildlife terrorists" and "land pirahnas". That is completely opposite of what they are. They are very important in maintaining a stable ecosystem. The truth is if there were enough wolves to keep the environment healthy (which there AREN'T), then both wolf and elk will benefit each other. Change your views on wolves before it's too late. 10/22/09 - 06:25
Prove it, show us and eco system any where on earth where wolves managed it and their prey and the wolves flourished.. Even the famous Isle Royal is in failure, Vancouver Island the Canadians attempted this as well, failure, and complete removal of wolves occurred. Russians attempted this experiment as well, game was wiped out, livestock was attacked, many unarmed Russians were killed.. Failure, this wolf management of eco systems is a theory and has never been proven to work. Italy tried this...Failure.. This is failing also... 10/22/09 - 12:48
" _ The “balance of nature fallacy”: Wolves are required in order to maintain “balance” in the ecosystem, so that the ecosystem can “regulate” itself. This argument is based on inability to distinguish between negative and positive feedback. Our bodies are regulated by negative feedback. Ecosystems run by positive feedback. That is, ecosystems are not “regulated”, as positive feedback has no means of “going back on itself” as negative feedback does. Your blood sugar levels are “regulated” in a classical negative feed back loop. Animal populations are not. They do however, grinding up against one another, grow or decline, each population being on positive feed back, as if trying to grow. This can lead to a stalemate that superficially looks like “regulation”, but is not. Introducing wolves into this discussion is thus empty rhetoric void of meaning. "_ The “wilderness fallacy”: To round out the list of fallacies, the wilderness fallacy must be quickly dealt with. It is another North American introduction into global culture. It is based on the conventional wisdom that pre-Colombian America was a virgin wilderness with very few natives, which practiced a wise ecologically sustainable lifestyle - a patronizing picture of indigenous people as noble savages if there ever was one. The Archeological record teaches otherwise, namely, that the Americas - as were all continents inhabited by humans - were fully utilized by sophisticated cultures and regionally dense populations. When European diseases and genocide rapidly diminished native populations, and the heavy hand of red man came off the land and led to an explosion of “wilderness”. This wilderness was in turn subdued beginning about 250 years later by the even heavier hand of white man. Wilderness in the North American context is an artifact of European colonization. There is no such thing as a continent- wide pre-Colombian American wilderness. To automatically invoke “wilderness” values is much like invoking “ecosystems” values. In reality this requires some very Socratic questioning and debate, whether “wilderness” should be spread in “multi-use landscapes surrounding houses, farms, villages and cities”! _" 10/19/09 - 21:16
Every action is a reaction. We have one planet and one chance. 10/20/09 - 07:55
Your right, we have one chance and you have not figured that out yet. governments and corporations which control governments use the problem reaction solution synthesis. For example you take a corporation making billions of dollars, and they pollute, well then the government which they control comes in and fines them $ ten million for their pollution. Nothing gets solved and government blames mankind, and the solution is more control of mankind. Neat trick. Meanwhile the corporation pays to pollute. They control both political parties, they divide their enemy which me and you, we fight over nothing while they still pollute, and blame us. Your just as guilty as all of mankind is because you blame me, instead of them, the corporation and bigger government control over me and you, you sided with them. You actually sided with the cretins doing it. And to boot you promote one of their Rock Bands they control.. They hate independent self sustaining free thinking humans they cannot control, hunter gatherer, rancher, farmer, do you notice you are attacking the little people, who do these things to sustain themselves, but i don't see you attacking the massive corporate meat markets which are up to their necks in blood and money making us all look bad, no basically you have joined sides with the very same corporate crew who hate indigenous peoples no matter the color of their skin, thats right, even white settler hunter gatherer types are indigenous, and the government corporation's problem reaction solution synthesis is being used to destroy them now. There is nothing wrong with defending animals, and the earth, but to worship creation instead of the creator is pantheism, and foolishness, especially when a would be god govcorp man made entity plays on your emotions and turns you against your fellow man, promoting feudalism, and division. They gain and we lose. 10/20/09 - 19:45
I never said I worshipped nature. I worship God and I am very grateful that he gave us this Earth. In the book of Genesis, He said we humans are the caretakers of the Earth. We are not supposed to destroy wolves or anything else. 10/20/09 - 20:05
Anthony, do you always think with your emotions only?? If so your life is going to be very shallow and you will learn very little. 10/20/09 - 20:42
DG, do you think at all? There is no reason to kill 220 of 1000 wolves just because you lobophobes think they "kill more than they need to". I don't worship wolves. Neither of us anti-lobophobes do. We want them to multiply. You want to bring them to extinction. If all the wolves were gone, the ecosystems will collapse. Get the picture? 10/20/09 - 22:12
1 Timothy 4:1-5 says that the last days will have demons trying to deceive people, so don't fall for it. Particular attention on verses 3-5: 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. Every creature means EVERY creature. Nothing to be refused. Received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. Eat deer and elk and pig and cow and duck and sheep and whatever else you like. And enjoy. The animals are all infinitely lower than man. And I mean infinitely. They're not created in the image of God, and they are not people. They aren't capable of what we are. Now, animal lovers are going to be angered by me saying this, but this is the truth. We are only truly free when we believe the Word of God, the Bible. These groups that come and obsess over pork, or whatever other foods, that's wrong. There is no food that is against the Lord. As Jesus said: Matthew 15:11 "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." That's the simplicity of believing the Bible I don't need some intense "explanation" that tries to explain away the obvious meaning of the passages. Like John 3:16. I believe in Jesus for salvation, then I'm saved. That kind of simple understanding, as Jesus said to come as a little child, is where the truth is. 10/20/09 - 22:24
There are some animals we just can't consume (like monkeys, dogs, and wolves). However, if you're out in the middle of the wilderness and you're starving, then go kill a deer if there's nothing else you can consume. Plus, you can be vegetarian and Christian. Just because Jesus ate meat doesn't mean you have to. 10/21/09 - 07:36
I've not looked for a wolf yet, to kill, seen plenty of them, in the Wilderness, these area's around these towns are not wilderness and I've seen plenty of wolves in those places as well. I like the Frank Church, the Sawtooth Zone, the truth is the elk and deer are over predated by wolves. Are we to just allow the wolves to over kill other animals until those creatures are in need of being replaced themselves ? This is happening in the Sawtooth Zone. So when wolves starve to death is this not the same as shooting a few of them ? Man caused this to begin with, responsibility is responsibility. Of course the hunting by a few hunters to cull the wolf will accomplish nothing, the ungulates decimation will continue. This nonsense of over protecting the wolves has been tried before, Russia, Canada, Italy, and it failed. They over populate to fast, they over kill their prey base, and other problems arise.. Man is a part of nature, just as all other living things are, so how does man keep this wolf from doing this to itself ? I have horses Anthony, I have traveled every Sawtooth Wilderness Trail more than once, and over half of the Frank Church, wolves in the wilderness follow me around, come into my camps, lunge at my horse once in awhile, other family members refuse to go camping with me in those places now. The wolves stay outside my camp howling most the nights, I dare not string my horses out on high lines any more to go hiking, and leave them unattended.. In forty years of doing this type of camping I never had bears or cougars doing this type of stuff...ever. If you do not want wolves shot, and if it is the truth that we have to many in some units, then what is your suggestion as a management tool, because this nonsense cannot continue, it is not good for man, nor wolf. And the truth is we have to many of them. Several places in Idaho are over the carrying capacity for this predator, and severely under the carrying capacity for ungulates. This experiment of putting wolves in small wilderness next to rural areas was and still is a mistake. 10/21/09 - 21:19
1,000 wolves is definitely NOT enough to support the ecosystem! 10/22/09 - 06:15
Wolves never could never would and never will support any eco system. If the Babylonian government admits to 1000 wolves then the truth is closer to 4000 wolves. This science you apparently support is globalization, One World Government anti Christos Order out of Chaos. I suggest you return to Biblical study. 10/17/09 - 11:14
Who is not being honest with us about these wolves? Dee Gardocki I sent this to a friend of mine that is very close to the management of the wolf population. She use They are talking about the wolf hunt. What they don't tell you is that the area where the members of the Cottonwood pack were taken has been closed to further hunting. It is being highly managed. Yes wolves were killed, but without some kind of control they would start dying of starvation. Quotas are established to prevent both overpopulation of habitat and overkill by hunters. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have you read anything about this. I don't remember seeing it anywhere? Subject: Urgent Action: Yellowstone Wolf Pack Killed 10/17/09 - 11:14
Who is not being honest with us about thee wolves? Dee Gardocki I sent this to a friend of mine that is very close to the management of the wolf population. She use They are talking about the wolf hunt. What they don't tell you is that the area where the members of the Cottonwood pack were taken has been closed to further hunting. It is being highly managed. Yes wolves were killed, but without some kind of control they would start dying of starvation. Quotas are established to prevent both overpopulation of habitat and overkill by hunters. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have you read anything about this. I don't remember seeing it anywhere? Subject: Urgent Action: Yellowstone Wolf Pack Killed 10/15/09 - 11:03
Lynne-- I've hiked many a mile since the deer/elk season opened a few days ago. Please tell me where you speak of when you say, "deer and elk are everywhere. Drive around at daybreak or twilight." Maybe then I could save my legs some work and drive right up to them. In my opinion the deer and elk population really seem to be on the move and have been since the wolve population was allowed to grow unregulated. This movement is detremental to the deer/elk population come winter when they need to conserve energy. You see, sometimes wolves kill without even showing their teeth and any time an animal lay dead in the field and serves to nourish noone that's a loose-loose situatation. The season is just another check and balance to ensure Idaho's reasoources are here for future generations. 10/15/09 - 17:18
Wolf hunters.....lets plan some wolf drives....the goal is to push the phantom pack north into the sawtooth zone where there are more tags....Once we eliminate the basin and phantom packs...we can say goodbye to the lazy enviros..who like to plan field trips to watch the mutts....once we get the easterners to quit wasting money in hopes to catch a glimpse of a dog...we can get some real hunting under way!!!! 10/17/09 - 06:59
You think that because you get rid of the packs we will stop? You see getting rid of those packs will cause major damage to the ecosystem and before long deer and elk will starve to death due to winter and unhealthy packs. That's how it will work and before long there will be even less deer and elk tags. Then Idaho will really think about it economy. 10/14/09 - 19:58
Ok Anthony, since you seem to have a mental connection with the wolves. Please enlighten me to what their reasons are for killing so many sheep (for example). Please dont try to spin your way out of the question, there are MANY such documented cases of multiple killings. You and the rest of your wolf worshipper friends better get the memos out to the wolves that they need to start living up to your misguided, emotional fantasy expectations. 10/17/09 - 00:39
A simple answer to your question: they kill to SURVIVE. They are NOT malicious or monstrous. This is how God made them and it's a complete shame that you don't accept the way they are. 10/17/09 - 13:31
Ok Anthony, so killing many more animals then they will eat is only a survival instinct? I do accept the way they are, that is why I support the management of their numbers. It is you and your wolf worshipper friends that are attempting to portray the wolf as something it is not. 10/19/09 - 21:12
You and the lobophobes portray them as "land pirahnas" and "wildlife terrorists". Wolves will never be that way. You rednecks are the wildlife terrorists and the land pirahnas. Stop the murder and leave the wolves alone. 10/21/09 - 16:27
Wolflover where are you from>>>? 11/08/09 - 08:16
sell more tags?? Why don't the wolves deserve to eat deer and elk? only humans are aloud now? That's great. Yeah kill all the wolves so as you guys can get a deer or elk. That is all you care about, not even the deer or elk, you just want one to fill your tummy. You see hunters do make money off of their 'kill all the wolves' propoganda. 10/14/09 - 18:30
"Save a wolf, shoot a redneck" Save a slave shoot a plantation slave owner. Hmmm, I wonder if that would be considered innocent sarcasm along about 1859 pre Civil war shots fired. Lets not forget the South released all slaves prior and during this conflict, meanwhile the Liberal North kept their African human chattle on a leash until 1868, along about August. How about save New Yorkers shoot Arabs... Sarcasm ? 10/14/09 - 15:43
DG, you dont have a clue on how and why wolves do what they do. You seem to want to categorize (Wolves) them at the same intelligence level as humans. Humans are the only creature that kills or cause suffering for no reason. 10/14/09 - 16:19
After reading your ignorant post Marc, you certainly are the clueless one. The wolf worshippers will be proud of you for buying into their propaganda. You may wish to do a bit of research on the mass livestock killings just in the past months. 10/14/09 - 16:58
From reading the reports that IDFG posts online, the livestock deaths are really incidental. It's important to compare them to deaths from weather, forage poisoning, coyotes, etc. Nonlethal methods used by responsible stockman have been shown to drasticly reduce problems. For example, the evidence from the Wood River Valley sheep project this summer when the only deaths occurred the one night there was miscommunication and the sheep were untended. The recent tragedy of 122 sheep being killed by wolves was very unnecesary, there had been an incident a few days before with 3 or 4 sheep killed in the same pen/location and then the stockman proceeded to not even check on his sheep for multiple days. This is irresponsible stockmanship at its best (worst?) 10/14/09 - 18:27
Exactly Marc, humans are the the only creature that destroys for no reason. DG and live2hnt are ignorant and don't understand anything about God's beautiful creatures. These two rednecks deserve to be chased to exhaustion by helicopters. 10/14/09 - 18:28
Exactly Marc, humans are the the only creature that destroys for no reason. DG and live2hnt are ignorant and don't understand anything about God's beautiful creatures. These two rednecks deserve to be chased to exhaustion by helicopters. 10/15/09 - 10:06
Marc, 10/19/09 - 13:05
Alright marc, you got to understand that not everyone is going to feel the same about matters like this.. there is proof that wolves kill more than they need to survive, whether its for sport or to train their young... whatever the reason is they kill more than they need to. by far. and this season set for wolves isnt to take out entire pack or all wolves. its not even going to make a slight dent in their population. odds are the quota that was set wont be even nearly met, and if too many wolves are killed from one pack fish and game will shut the area down. this season was just set to try and slow down the growth of the population. there will be easily 3 times as many pups born this year than wolves killed off by hunters. as for the hunters they are in the wolves playing field. the wolves will out smart the hunters. saying what ive said i respect your opions and views and understand that you are just looking out for what you believe in Leave a Comment
1
|
A member of the Phantom Hill wolf pack pauses for a rest in the central Wood River Valley last winter.
Photo by Courtesy photo
Local Weather 
|
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Other Sites |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
Copyright © 2009 Express Publishing Inc . All Rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part in any form or medium without express written permission of Express Publishing Inc. is prohibited.
|
|
Copyright ©
2009
Express Publishing Inc. The Idaho Mountain Express is distributed free to residents and guests throughout the Sun Valley, Idaho resort area community. Subscribers to the Idaho Mountain Express will read these stories and others in this week's issue. |