I think the pro helicopter hazing and helicopter killing people should have to help pay for it. This is so typical of how messed up this country is. People paying for mistakes made by people that don't even exist anymore. Hunters paying the money so that trustfunding animal rights people can feel better about themselves and not contribute A dime for their fervent passion for saving everything on the planet. I for one am tired of hearing that there should not be A wolf season. Sure would be cheaper than helicopter rental, jet fuel and pro shooters. We sportsmen are the ones paying for all this people! If you want any say at all you should make the check out to idaho fish and game and or the feds. Then you may have some credibility. But no, what will actually happen is litigation on A massive scale that even costs us sportsmen more money in liscense and taxes. It's high time the systems of checks and balances and supply and demand that our country and economy were based on came back into play. Why should I A smoker have to pay for children to go to college? Why should I as A hunter have to pay for wolf care? Why should I as A taxpayer pay for executive bonuses and subsidize all of big buiseness with no return? Does this make any sense to anybody?

Upping the ante, Gillette's Anti-wolf coalition, and Save the elk has pushed all in, DOW and sentient wolf lovers are trying to figure out how to call with a lone duck. Freedom isn't so pretty anymore, just ask Theodore Kaczynski..

Haha, I can't believe how irradical and how childish people can be when things are a little bit harder for them. At least Idaho has a healthy population which is being kept in check with a natural system like nature intended. If you want to complain, come look at Nebraska what happens when you have no predators to keep wildlife populations in check. Deer are the biggest causes of car collisions this year because of over-population. On top of that, we have reoccurring CWD problems in our populations, and on top of it all, the deer are eating away at our crops which are in turn causing even more damage and problems residentially than any wolf has caused yet... Just because your elk populations are lower than you like them to be, doesn't mean anything, other than you're a very selfish/needy individual who is used to being spoiled and receiving anything you want. Hunting is a sport which is meant to be enjoyed by means of preparation, calling expertise, and most of all, determination. Furthermore, which individuals do you think are being taken?!? Do you seriously think that wolves kill the strongest, baddest, and best elk of the herd? Of course not! Wolves actually take out the sickly, injured, and young who are either suffering already and are being put out of their misery. Also, if you are out hunting, do you seriously think you'll take an elk which is showing signs of sickness or take a yearling? No, hunters (myself included) go for the biggest they can find when given the opportunity. Most hunters even pass on decent sized elk on the chance to find a bigger one. So overall, maybe we should all think about what we're complaining about and try to at least learn something about the animal before making assumptions...

The voices of the rural residents that are impacted by wolves are seldom heard. Not all of us are ranchers, and some of us don't even hunt. No organization represents us. We are not compensated by any agency when wolves kill our animals, and we pay our own vet bills. We must not make good newspaper headlines. That does not diminish the fact that wolves are living near our neighborhoods and attacking, maiming and killing our animals. When a wolf walks into your yard and snatches your pet - what can you do? Report it to F&G and then what? Have a bunch of wolf huggers tell us that we should take better care of our animals? They would have us stand over our dogs while they pee at night in their own back yard with a flash light and pepper spray, so someone in the city can feel warm and fuzzy. We are supposed to bring our horses into the house at night to be safe too I suppose? There isn't enough suitable habit left in our state to support the numbers of wolves we currently have.

At least you folks over in Blaine Co are getting some press and special treatment from the F&G. Too bad the rest of us rural Idahoans just get to read about it in the paper, while we morn the lost of another beloved pet.

Jeanie and others make some good points here. I think there are a few root issues that fuel the fire that is the anti-wolf constituency (and, correspondingly the pro-wolf constituency):

1. Anger about wolves eating animals that they would otherwise shoot, either for sport, food, or both. This really boils down to the age old argument about the ethics of hunting. The spirit of the debate fluctuates depending on the relative differences of opinion. Hunting has impacts on large game, as do wolves. The impact of thousands of hunters killing thousands of game animals surely has an impact on game populations, just as the impact of a thousand or so wolves do.

2. Irrational fear of wolves. Assertions that wolves are an imminent threat to people is unfounded. That this assertion is often made by the hunting constituency is particularly ironic. The odds of being accidentally killed in a hunting accident is significantly higher than being injured (let alone killed) by a wolf. Sure, it's possible that a wolf might cause personal injury, but that possibility is substantially remote vs. being shot in one of the canyons near town during opening day of deer season.

3. Perceived or actual conflicts with wolves and livestock. Of the three issues, this one has some merit, and has been largely been addressed by various state and federal agencies as well as the Defenders of Wildlife.

There's an awful lot of emotion around this issue, and the roots are cultural and religious as much as they are factual. But, they're ultimately not going to be solved in forums such as this, where people comment anonymously, threaten anonymously, slander each other, and otherwise generally behave badly.

I've seen my share of bad behavior on various blogs on this topic, including public accusations of authorship of postings I didn't write, public posting of private e-mail addresses including mine by site operators, invitations to visit certain individuals in barns in the south county, etc.

I thank the Mt. Express for working to keep this discussion more civil and less insulting. It's a tough job, particularly given the issue at hand and the personalities involved. That there are other sites that encourage or otherwise condone the worst behavior on this topic is troubling, and ultimately nonproductive for anyone except perhaps those engaged in legal professions as the inevitable legal actions take form.

If the wolves are going to kill all the game in Idaho, then why are there still moose and wolves on relatively tiny little Isle Royale after 50 years of isolation?

For that matter, why was there plentiful game all across this beautiful country when the European settlers arrived?

There used to be this large game animal called a bison that was all over the mid west before we introduced our "wildlife management". Methinks nature does a fine job of managing itself, and humans tend to screw it up.

My biggest question to hunters is this: Why, given the nature of the debate, does it always seem to boil down to you being angry that you can't shoot elk?

To paraphrase countless anti-wolf/pro-elk articles that I have read over the last year: "Wolves are killing elk and I'm angry because now it's harder to find them to kill them myself."

Really?

I know that may sound antagonistic, but it isn't meant to be. I just honestly don't get it. Forgive my youthful ignorance (I'm 15), but I would really appreciate it if someone from the other side of the issue can explain it me without it becoming about hunting.

From what I understand the elk populations exploded after we moved into Idaho in the last two centuries and took out the wolves that had been here previously. Because of this it's only natural that elk were easier to find before wolves were recently re-introduced! And now pack predators are back and gaining strength and the bloated elk population is being reduced.

There may be problem wolves, but that doesn't give us the right to decimate their population again in retaliation.

I call for reasonable management, not outright slaughter.

It just seems like the argument for wolf management would carry more weight if it came from people without an agenda that seems to be based on competition instead of balance and conservation.

www.saveelk.com is a very informative website on what has been happening since the wolves have been reintroduced. I was under the asumption that wolves were not aggresive towards humans. The wolves are becoming quite brazen going after bison and grizzley bears, not just the sick and weak elk and deers. It is only going to get worse when their food source runs out, we will be next. I support delisting them from the endangered species act and having controled hunts before the balance of nature is irreplaceable. Check out the website to better knowledge yourslves.

Hunting is no doubt an impressive endeavor. It's truly remarkable to participate or imagine the skill it requires to track prey, sometimes for days and weeks at at time. And land and resource management is certainly required to preserve the common interest of those of us who pay taxes with some level of trust that those resources are managed.

I find this concept of "sport" hunting troubling, however. There are two situations where I find hunting acceptable---when a life (livestock, canine, or human) is threatened, and when hunting leads to providing needed food for human consumption. Outside of that, the thought that any society would promote, endorse, and subsidize the blood lust of individuals who care more about killing than any demonstration of respect or concern for life is, at the least, troubling. Furthermore, the claim that they are preserving their "freedom" is offensive to those of us who are truly dedicated to that cause.

Does freedom afford that person the right to senselessly and purposely kill anything? Do your homework on the actual number of human-wolf incidences. Read about what groups like the Wolf Education & Research Center and others are doing to promote successful non-lethal controls and compensation that often far exceeds wolf-caused losses. As man moves into more and more rural areas, we encroach upon areas that are habitat to native species that are important to preserve.

But I guess we know how that turned out for Native Americans. Kill 'em. Move 'em. And defend our rights to do so.

It's time to grow up and embrace as much respect for life and others as you "hunters" demand for your rights.

years of progress with cheatgrass,kosha and now the wolves, it is hard enough to keep our elk and deer healthy. I hunted northern idaho for years and last 2 years was the worst, I always see elk but not then year. The wolves were howling from ridges across on Craig Mountain, White Bird was even better below Grangeville, had wolves criscrossing roads. Had absolutley no luck in Bear Valley lat year. No elk, no deer seen a track heading towards Idaho City, the wolves are there also big time, too many wolves. Need to be controlled before they get to the big herds in the Owyhees.

I find it interesting that nature found a way to manage itself for eons without our help! It's only since man decided to intervene, put up signs & fences in the name of "progress" & attempt to defend what is on loan to them did conservation become an issue! Wolves have a right to exist, to live off the land, to be free, just as every living thing that has come before & after them! You say wolves are a detriment to livestock & game? The flipside to that coin is that man is, & has always been, a detriment to, not just wildlife, but to life in general. I challenge you to define the difference in the thought & reasoning behind the extermination wolves & the extermination that any tyrant who has ever lived has produced?!

Interesting stuff, all that history blown out the window in one meeting - the wolves, the elk, the deer, the Indians, and the bear all lived together for many many moons. It wasn't until the white man came along and started killing for sport, trophy's, land and power that the problems started. Well can't change all that now, management yes indescriminate killing is not management. How many people are killed every year hitting game animals on the road should we wipe them all out? Alot more people and pets are killed by snakes let's get them too.
There were a lot of "stories" in previous comments I would love to see the photos (really want that one of wolves vs mountain lion) as my sister who lives there has only been able to provide me with a half dozen long distance shots and one close up taken with a long distance lens.
Before you jump to conclusions I am a hunter, gun-owner, gundog trainer and lover, father, American, have a strong connection to nature and I hate PETA.
Let the managers do their job and Mother Nature will balance herself out as she always does.

I just watched, on our local RSN channel 14 on cable, a documentary about wolf hunting with eagles in Kazakhstan. Usually eagles are used to hunt foxes, rabbits, etc., but when wolves start attacking their flocks of sheep, the people go after them with their eagles. Some notable quotes from the film: "They [wolves] have become used to the presence of men and are increasingly defiant" - narrator on the movie. "The wolves always kill more than they eat" - Tribal elder. These people should know as they have been living like this and hunting wolves with eagles since the 13th century.

Wolves do not share our sense of "morality." To them, another animal is either a member of the pack, a source of food or a threat to be avoided. The human must establish himself as a threat to be avoided, unless he and his animals want to be a source of food for the wolf. The only way to do this is to kill wolves that are a threat to us. Any that show up on our "turf" should be shot on sight. That is how they learn. It is either that or we should all pack up and leave. Some would advocate the latter. Are we all ready to vacate our towns from Challis to Stanley to Bellevue and rip up all the houses and roads to make way for the wolf? Some say yes. UN Agenda 21 and all that stuff...

The quote "These things are huge—they're monsters," he said. "They eat the fetus. It's like candy for them. They don't kill to eat, they kill for fun." , kinda sounds like humans to me.

This situation is only going to get worse for the pro-wolfers.
In the beginning they came with propaganda and deceit, claiming cooperation and compromise. They agreed to a small population of wolves, along with the procedures for management and delisting criteria based on the agreed to science governing that population. Then the groups followed their standard operating procedures of first gaining trust by compromise. Then once their foot is in the door, the true agenda can be unveiled, which in this case, is unmanaged and unlimited wolf populations, far above and beyond the original agreement. The propaganda campaign was excellent at preying on people’s emotions, selling the wolf as a spiritual, mythological creature. That emotional connection equated to tremendous financial gain for the pro-wolf groups, the wolf is a huge cash cow for these groups. So why would they want them delisted? With delisting comes a calming of the controversy, without controversy, the cash flow dries up.
The wolf itself is now the biggest threat to the pro-wolfers. With growing numbers, the true (negative) wolf behavior is and will continue to become more visual to people, wolf impact will be harder for the pro-wolfers to explain away. The pro-wolf propaganda will be proven false by the very wolf the pro-wolfers idolize. Public opinion for the wolf and pro-wolf groups will erode. My opinion is the wolf groups have painted themselves into a corner with the continued fight to stop delisting.

Wolves are a bit more aggressive than Elk. If a herd of Elk were attacking neighborhoods what do you think would be done? What if it was a pack of dogs running around in the neighborhood creating havik? Something would be done. We dont live in the backcountry-wilderness or Wild West we live in city limits where wolves do not belong. Fish and Game need to deal with the situation .

What�s surprising about these decidedly anti-wolf testimonials is that this is by residents presumably right in the heart of the pro-wolf, DOW, John Marvell, Lynne Stone territory. I fully expected that she would amass a major group of pro-wolf advocates supporting their position and cause. Even the Mayor of Sun Valley, Wayne Willich, spoke, and gave an impassioned talk expressing his grave concerns about wolves, and the way the population has exploded in the Valley and gotten totally out of hand.

Mr. Willich stood before the crowd pointing his finger, occasionally at Cal Groen IDF&G Director and Jerome Parish MV Regional Supervisor in attendance. He said that he came to the valley about several years ago from back East and at that time he was decidedly for animal rights, and was opposed to hunting and the killing animals. He now understands and appreciates the opinions and values of the Valley. He�s gotten a concealed weapons permit and now enjoys shooting and fishing, along with his many other outdoor pastimes. He says the Valley�s way of life is being threatened �to the core� by these wolves. He believes that this wolf situation has gotten entirely out of hand and something has to be done immediately. He believes the wolves have caused the natural order of things to turn "upside down". Elk are being chased through the streets of town with wolves killing them within yards of buildings. He doesn�t feel safe in his own home as wolves often wander through his yard and he recently had a mountain line slaughtered by wolves within 100 yards from his home. That just isn't right. Residents and visitors are afraid. Do they dare venture out from their safe surroundings? He is very concerned that someone is destined to soon get attacked by a wolf as they become increasingly domesticated. This domestication threatens visitors who come to Sun Valley from all over the country for its outdoor recreational opportunities. Visitors come to the resort to mountain bike, hike, ski, fish, etc, and if someone is attacked as he�s sure will happen, it�s going to be a major economic blow to the area. He said it would be devastating to the local economy. He's also speaking on behalf of the Sun Valley Company and they too see this urgency and are demanding that something be done. They believe a single wolf attack will cost them millions and will result in visitors going elsewhere. They have to much invested to sit back and to let this happen. He said as mayor he is charged with the responsibility to look out for the local resident�s businesses and interests, and for the health and safety of all residents and visitors. He believes all affected parties are prepared to sue in the unfortunate event that someone in the Valley is attacked or killed by a wolf.

Individual after individual got up and passionately told their horror stories and voiced their concerns about wolves. Lynn Stone, along with here pro-wolf followers were also there. However, throughout the night they took so many �arrows� that none of them had the nerve to comment or to attempt to justify their pro-wolf position to the crowd. Slowly, one by one they snuck out the back door without ever commenting.

A few challenged the press to accurately report this rally and the sentiments of the residents. There was some press attending and we will see if they dare go against the PC establishment and accurately report the rally.

There is no doubt that most residents from the Hailey area are absolutely feed up with this wolf debacle and are at their �wits-end�. I believe that this issue is far from over, as everyone I talked with is dedicated to keep up this fight until something positive is done, even if it means taking directly with the Governor.

SaveElk.com

Recap of the Hailey Wolf Rally 4/4/09

I would estimate 200-250 in attendance and the parking lot was full of cars. The meeting was organized by Bill Ward. private resident of Bellevue and Matt Douthit president of Deer hunters of Idaho. The meeting started at 6:00 pm with speakers including Bill Ward, Matt Douthitt, Cal Groen of the IDF&G, Ron Gillette of Stanley, Tim Kemery- former trapper and rancher from Challis, Dave Burke- Outfitter and rancher from Ashton, and Tony Mayer of Twin Falls representing SaveElk.com. Lynne Stone of DOW declined to speak. Additional presenters were asked to complete comment cards and allowed to speak after the main presenters. The meeting ended at around 10:30 – 11:00 pm when the building caretakers had to turn out the lights; there simply was enough time for everyone who filled out a comment card to be heard. A lot of passion about this subject with 99.9 % of the residents saying something must be done right away to control and remove the wolves. Cal Groen indicated that the IDF&G is keenly aware of the urgency of this wolf issue. He said his department is capable of managing wolves just as they do all other game species. All speakers commented on how this wolf introduction program has turned into a major debacle, and how unmanaged wolves are systematically destroying and eradicating our states ungulate and other wildlife. There was much public comment - all of it was decidedly anti-wolf, "get them out of here” rhetoric voiced by everyone. There was comment after comment about people and livestock being harassed, threatened and attacked, and individuals witnessing elk being sport killed and slaughtered by wolves.

Saveelk.com

How do wolf haters expect anything to get done constructively when you have governors voicing inappropriate comments and cowards like Mr Gillette hitting female environmentalists. Wolves will never be delisted without cooperation from both sides- wolves have just as much right to live in the West as people do!!!! People that take the law into their own hands should and will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law- Idaho like Wyoming has very little tolerance for predators- They show contempt for wildlife and I think it is pathetic.

As expected, the far-left radical rag tries to paint a picture to suit their agenda and smear those that hold differing views. "Anger Boiling Over"? "Irate Crowd"? Give me a break mr. writer and mr. editor. I was there. Apparently, you weren't. Why didn't you bother to mention Mayor Willich's bringing down the house after addressing F&G with his safety concerns?
Always when I read the Express, the tragedy of losing the Journal hits home.

Well, at least F&G is trying to haze wolves in your area. Money talks? What about the rest of rural Idaho?

Wolves belong in the wilderness, not in subdivisions!

This meeting was much needed and very well timed. Thank you Matt Douthit for organizing it and I hope to attend more meetings like this in the future. The facts were laid out and although there were some people in attendance who felt uncomfortable when faced with the truth, things need to change. The number of wolves have grown so we NEED to manage them.

I guess when a pretty 20 somthing female is running trails with her dog and she gets attacked and her dog killed,or possibly a toddler gets killed in there own yard then will we wake up or is it better to be apathetic? I hunt my own food and practice martial arts and yoga. I am a snowboarder and love to mountain bike. My comfort of safety in the back country has diminished with seing 190 lb. wolves track me and circle my hunting trails.These wolves are not indiginous to Idaho or the Wood river Valley and they are getting very close to homes and hunting mother elk and deer while they are birthing. The pack kills the fetus and tears the mothers reproductive organs to pieces only to die a horrible death over several days of painful inability to urinate or defacate.They have learned an easy kill and are decimating our deer and elk. Tags should be sold during the fawning season and proper managment would help to create some balance. Oh I got to hunt with a 200 lb. lobo trailing and watching me past Red elephant and there was a pack of 17 in lake creek. That was in the fall. H.

Any person that incites fear and extremism should be considered dangerous.

what are the hunters worried about - aren't they saying their guns are going to be taken away by the current administration? I thought THAT was their latest scare tactic...