Management for all wildlife, or no management of any. Get in or get out.

Game wardens, police, the mayor, a newspaper story. Wow. No one had anything to do that day? This story is but not one click above some random blog out there. Are blogs pulling newspapers down yet further? Wolves killed a lion. That's what they do if they get the chance. It's another day in nature. Lots of stuff happens there, and not uncommonly harsh. Wolves kill lions, coyotes, elk, deer, etc. Sometimes elk and deer starve. Some times they die from disease and accidents. Lions have been documented to kill wolves too. Lions, elk, deer, etc die from hunters. Stuff dies folks. Everyday. All day long. Read the paper, er another paper, and you will see much crazier stuff about people dieing all over the world. Everyday. All day long. But there is coverage disproportionate to the worthiness of the event when wolves do it. Shouldn't we be paying time and energy to actual problems of the day.

There was a dead elk in this story - that the lion "found". You mean the lion didn't kill it? Lions kill elk. Everyday. News flash! Somebody get on that one. Maybe the game warden can take it to town and meet with police and Mayor to discuss it? I don't get it. I mean nature is interesting, for sure, and interesting story, BUT because wolves are involved, the hype goes up, "journalist" (ah lets say reporter) hypes the story (because it sells that way), and a 1000 comments follow - not all but lots of hype. Wolves make people crazy and it's hard to watch. And now people post web sites for us to go to for the "facts". Egads. People anybody can have a website! Just because some yo-yo has a website doesn't mean it's factual! Those sites not accountable to anyone! Newspapers are accountable to their readers. Police and IDFG folks are accountable to the public, etc. BUT folks with websites aren't accountable to anyone. No check. No balance. Freedom of Speech for sure but we forget about an important undocumented freedom Freedom of critical thought! PETA has a website. Is everything on their true? I'm thinking maybe a small percent at best. There are also lots of websites on UFOs, mental telepathy, all kinds of paranormal, etc. The save our elk website isn't any better. It seems that the hype becomes the thing, the tangible with a life of it's own, and we, including the professionals, get pulled into the huge sucking power thinking we are gravitating to truth. We're not. We're circling the drain! My hope is someday we get past the hoopla. I hope that representatives from fish and game (as our resource stewards) help that process, and I hope that the journalists, even in small market papers, rise to a higher standard to report information to hopefully educate without the hype, and all of this will subside. And the save our elk guys will drink lemonade and play chess with the bigfoot guys while their nurses look after them.

Woah.....That's intense! Stoked to go up there this weekend.

I'm going to dress up like a cougar. Wear tight jeans and a revealing low cut top, smoke Vigin non-filtereds, and use three cans of hairspray on my permanent. Hopefully the wolves are in the 18-25 year old range.

This account from the Associated Press is for the person that stated there have been no fatal attacks by wolves on humans.

Humans have been killed by rabid and captive wolves in North America before. There also have been many documented cases of fatal wolf attacks in India.

Carnegie, a 22-year-old engineering student from Ontario, was found dead on Nov. 8, 2005, at the Points North Landing supply depot. Co-workers found his mauled body -- surrounded by wolf tracks in the snow -- in the brush only about a half-mile from the camp.

The Mackenzie Valley Wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis) also known as the Rocky Mountain Wolf, Alaskan Timber Wolf or Canadian Timber Wolf is perhaps the largest subspecies of Gray Wolf in North America. Its range includes parts of the western United States, much of western Canada, and Alaska, including Unimak Island in the Aleutians, and was reintroduced into Yellowstone National Park and central Idaho.[2]. So yes the wolves that were re-introduced are one in the same as the ones that were here before.

If it were a dog that attacked the cougar or elk wouldnt the owner be sited for having an animal at large and harrassing wild game? It seems to me the wolves are awfully close to city limits . Maybe we need to walk our dogs and carry a gun to protect ourselves from surpise attacks. They do this in Alaksa and the Northwest Territories where Grizzley bears roam. Or maybe we need to introduce the Grizzleys here to take care of the Wolves???

You know you anti wolf people will never stop. Wolves have only once been documented killing for sport and have never been convicted of killing a human being here in the US. The wolves that were brought down from Canada are no different then the ones that use to live in Idaho. Do the research. If your going to set back and listen to people like Ron Gillette, Tony Mayer or Nate Helm then your a lost cause. The wolves are not going to kill all the elk. Then there is the argument about how yellowstone use to have 20,000+elk, lets get real that area could not support that amount of elk. That amount of elk in such a small area is just asking for a major outbreak of CWD or any other disease the elk may catch. You greedy white man seem to think these elk were only put on this earth for them to hunt. No one wants to admit that incredible amount of deer and elk that are killed because of roadkill, poachers and the uncontrolable mother nature. Too bad IDFG would not pull their heads out of backsides, IDFG could make more money from the creation of a park like yellowstone, the amount of people that go over there just to view wolves and grizzly bears. The amount of money wildlife viewers spend would dwarf the amount of hunters by hundreds of thousands of dollars every year.

so, how many elk/week do yall figure this pack kills? it should be a good time to figure this out, during winter on the winter'killing' grounds. may be a good time to estimate how many wolves id. needs to 'harvest'/year. help wy. to get on track, so [we] dont have to 'restore' big game to yer states next. good luck---gl ps.-support the nra or gun rights group of yer choice NOW-please. thanx

I have faith that the truth is finally coming out. The truth about wolves will not be reflected in the populist opinion until, citizens with political and financial power are made aware and affected personally. It seems that with the extreme predatorial events taking place in Sun Valley and the neighborhoods of the Wood River Valley, that some of those individuals are finally seeing the truth. It's easy to rally support for the wolves when their presence and impact are ethereal concepts that evoke images of Indian with spirit names like "Lobo" living in symbiotic harmony with their wolf brothers. The truth is far different and ugly. We are not wild in Idaho. Habitat IS landlocked and the entire ecosystem is constantly managed with sensitive and expensive efforts by the F&G. Years of progress in establishing a viable and sustainable population of elk, deer, goats, sheep, antelope, cougars and bears is being destroyed. Yet only when a millionaire can't walk their dog safely will this tragedy be addressed. The powers that be don't care about ranchers, hunters and other citizens of Idaho's rural areas.

I am sure the emotional onslaught from the environmental (defenders of our revenue) groups is about to be in full force. The wolf worshippers have convinced a large population base that the wolf is a magical, spiritual creature and is above all other wildlife in importance. This propaganda creates strong emotional and revenue generating reactions from the wolf supporters. Their agenda is to keep creating controversy, without compromise, by whatever means possible to keep the contributions rolling in.

After reading all this it looks like there is no reason to buy a tag for Elk or Deer in Idaho .
Looks like we will all be hunting for white tail back east some where very soon,or Elk hunting in mexico .

Let the tree huggers support F&G I guarantee you they wont be getting new trucks ever 2 year's .
I have hunted and lived in Idaho for 27 years and I won't be buying a Elk or Deer tag this year just a waste of money better off buying a lotto ticket O and the lotto ticket is cheaper and chances of winning are probley better.
Hey why havent F&G said anything about the cougar and cub that was killed out little wood by wolfs killed the mother and ate the cub all but its head it was feeding on a deer it had killed they just cover up everything they can.
Also how many wolfs where at the Elkhorn kill site all it said was a pack was it 25 or 3 or 7 dont want the public to know just how many are among us.
Well enough complaining for now.
Canadian Wolf Smoke a Pack today and save are ELK now!!!

That is true and that's most likely why they killed that cat. However, more importantly than if wolves kill for sport, they often kill any opportunity for prey. They often box in and hobble elk in numbers and later kill some and leave others to die from their injuries. They also like to eat the hind quarter and liver and will leave a carcass mostly wasted and go on to kill again. This is why they as such prolific killers and a good reason as to why they are reducing the elk herds so quickly. They need far more habitat and prey than their current numbers can sustain. Checkout this link for examples: www.wildlife-enhancement.ca/Whats%20New_6.htm
Or this one:
www.aws.vcn.com
Or this:
www.mtmultipleuse.org
The proof is endless, but officially the F&G and Wildlife management agencies in a lower 48 states refuse to take a stand and provide a position until they know whether or not the Federal protection will stand. I predict once it is lifted for good they will produce piles of proof that support their "new" position and rufute the old paradigm as old science, that' politics. Ironically the only state that has an ongoing pro-active wolf culling program is Alaska. Ashley Judd hates it, but then again she doesn't live there like most of the wolf pushers....still she is hot and we like to watch her explain her, ugh, views.

Wolves do not kill for sport. They kill cats to eliminate their competition for prey. Go watch any number of you tube videos of hyenas and African lions vying and protecting territory to the death. They never feed on the kills. If mountain lions lived and hunted in prides like African lions, they would attack any wolf pack in their territory, if they felt thay could come away with a victory. But alas, mtn. lions are solitary and can only play defense.

Don't get to excited Ghost, in 30 days it takes effect and then the 11 groups we love so much will refile new lawsuits and tie it up in court again...There will be no wolf hunts, and even if there is, man and gun will have very little success hunting wolves..The wolf population explosion will continue even if there is a hunting season for wolves..the damage to collapsing herds will continue..

Animals will kill other animals. What I want to address is the irrational fear of wild animals killing humans. It happens, but rarely. More people are killed by dogs than any wild animal. Secondly, any person is more likely to be killed by another human than any wild creature--drunk drivers, guns, etc. I speak from experience because my father's life was deliberately taken by "a supposed friend" who murdered him.

I, and many people I know, have spent much time in the wilderness. It is much safer to be surrounded by wild animals than to be surrounded by the apex predator -- man.

Ta Da!
fishandgame.idaho.gov
Hey Kibby? Wanna come up and get a few dog tags? Im sure you could hustle us up a few "SLOW MOVING ELK" for bait? What da say???

Kibby,
I have to say that you are typical of the problem. Every one of your points is incorrect, uniformed and, well ignorant. First let me speak for myself when I say that as bowhunter for 20 years I have hunted on public land throughout Idaho before there was such a thing as "game farms" or re-introduced wolves. It was "fairchase" and it is VERY difficult to hunt Elk with a bow. Don't believe me? Come back from to Idaho and try it. Ironically, the bowhunting is not MORE difficult now, it just take place closer to human populations. That is where the Elk have congregatied YEAR ROUND to avoid the wolf packs moving south into new territory. Think that is BS?? Checkout the farms south of Bellevue, 200 head of Elk and growing. The wolves have been shoot nearby by ranchers and the F&G. Nobody is claiming the wolves are going to attack people, but the ecosystem in this so-called "wild" state is actually carefully managed by the F&G. You and many who don't know better are ignorant of this fact and how fragile the ecosystem is.

As far as the argument over the accuracy of whether the Canadian wolf is the same that was here thousands of years ago, you missed the point and made another relevant one. The point you missed was that it is a species that is used to an entirely different prey and environment. It is not coming home....it is being relocated for political reasons. Ironically, the point you made haplessly, was that this is not thousand of years ago. Only hundreds of years ago, the GRIZZLY bear was roaming California. Don't believe me? Check your State Flag! Following your the twisted logic of the Pro Wolf debate, shouldn't we RE-introduce the Griz back to Mt Tam? or even the wilderness outside of Santa Barbara? Plenty of room at Big Sur. The point is....unless you live here: Shut the hell up.

Entertaining comments on this story. You can almost see the divide between the city dwellers and the folks with wolves living in their neighborhood. Wolves belong in the wilderness, not in subdivisions. When you have to stand guard with a flashlight and gun to let the dog out to pee its getting a bit out of hand.

Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History Physiological (Morphological) Basis for Establishing a Northern Rocky Mountain DPS... Proves the Northern Canadian species is incorrect for Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.. It also proves who believes in false theories.
www.skinnymoose.com

Just another gun owner, hunter, reader, researcher, historian..dangerous you wouldn't want me to know you or your residence dangerous wild foaming at the mouth terrorist aluminum foil hat wearing different American.

You guys are to much.. :)

Comrade Kibby, which species of the 24 known North American wolf species are you referring too ? The Northern Canadian species is incorrect for the lower 48. Writings of Theodore Rex Roosevelt prove it..other historians as well as FWS records..Idaho state fish and game admit elk are in 7% decline in several units..as well wolves are in 15% increase..Maybe you should worry about your own bankrupt back yard trashed by your state government implementing the Uns Agenda 21 environmentalist insanity..slopping at the federal funds broke your state trough along with 45 other states.. www.freedomadvocates.org I find it to funny that this UN agenda is 40 years old and has been being implemented in America since 1992 nation wide and you living in the states missed that...Boy your bright..

Wow. There's some strange folk inhabiting this comment area! So of course I MUST join them.

I keep waiting for the myth of the 'Canadian wolf' to die out, but apparently the fable is too good to let go. That the wolves introduced from Canada are the same elk and bison-eating kind that lived in the Rockies for thousands of years hasn't stopped anyone from letting the facts get in the way of a good story, obviously! (The 'Sawtooth' subspecies? Really?!)

Also pleased to see the usual conspiracy theorists are back in force (it's a United Nations/black helicopter plot to RULE THE WORLD!) along with the people who somehow think nature couldn't possibly get along without our assistance.

The forecast that wolves will KILL OFF ALL THE WILD ANIMALS AND THEN COME FOR US AND OUR CHILDREN AND OUR PETS, OMIGOD!! has been nursed along for, what, a decade now? I lived/hunted in wolf, cougar and grizz country for years, and it's the only country worth living and hiking in. Now I live in CA and brutally miss what I had to leave behind. Get a grip, get a clue, and have a little respect, folks. You sound as ignorant of nature as the folks in LA, though you live in one of the few places where there IS such a thing as wilderness, and intact predator-prey ecosystems. If you find wolves so appalling, come hang out in the Central Valley, or move to the Midwest, or anyplace else where the wild order of things is only a distant memory. There's plenty of trophy deer that'll act sufficiently cowlike to insure you get one every year. In fact, why bother hunting? Go to one of those elk ranches that'll let you shoot a tame 6-point bull to hang on your wall. After all, God forbid you should shoot an elk that has been pushed by wolves to act like a wild elk instead of a freakin' Hereford with antlers. Or be more inconvenienced by 'nature' than some yuppie who lives in downtown New York.

Dog Boy?? I think I know who you are...you never could shoot straight, and does your first name rhyme with PADE? LOL. If you are who I think you are you know who this is. Id give my real name, but I'd be afraid Id be the victim of a drive by pelting with synthetic Arcteryx sweaters from of outraged Subaru drivers. It's tough going against the DOGMA in a blue town, even if you voted for Obama.

Dog Boy?? I think I know who you are...you never could shoot straight, and does your first name rhyme with PADE? LOL

gut shoot run fast

Greg you are right. Some may call your views extreme, but funny enough, when it comes to this issue, you have layman's wisdom that is being proved accurate. The wolves are here to stay, i am afraid, but they need to be hunted....heavily at first. Like it or not ALL wild areas of Idaho are and need to be, managed.

The wolves in the Frank Church come right into my camp..follow me and the horses, they do not fear me at all, like the bear and couger do.. But I did look out of the sleeping bag once and looked into the face of a bear inside my tent, he ran off out the door and never looked back..The sad truth about the wolf is prior to "reintroduction" Idaho still had (wolves) grey ghosts. I watched them, and raised one.

Geeeeeez,
How did this go from Wolves to Geo political debate? Honestly I am a left leaning independent who loves Canadian wolves but hates that they have been "introduced' to an environment that can no longer support them and does not need them. The Cougar and the Bear completed the Apex predator role since the late 30's after the "Sawtooth" subspecies of wolves was nearly eradicated by our native Idahoans. Now the introduced wolves are killing the Cougars/bears/coyotes/sheep dogs/unlucky labs...and depleting the Elk heards. When will common sense prevail. Hasn't the general population begun to think for themselves and reject the propaganda and agendas of the Pro Wolf special interest groups....I doubt that a human will be attacked soon but I am sure some young woman will watch in horror as her pet is torn to death in front of her. It's about fear of man. That's why cougars and bears keep their distance. Just ask any Park Ranger in Yosemite or Yellowstone. When the do attack a pet or a child because of a lack of natural fear will it be Cool? Or Wild? I guess that depends on where your children and pets live? Idaho or California.

Return all of Elkhorn, Sun Valley, and Warm Springs back to quakies and sage brush. Get rid of the squatters in the area. NONE of you have seen how many Elk USED to winter right in the Sun Valley parking lot before asphalt. All you people up there need to return to Europe where your ancestors came from. The animals can exist without your involvement in a truly natural environment.

Russian woman killed by wolves, Canadian Mainstream News Media believes event news worthy..
www2.canada.com

It must be as worthy as these articles here..

Russia is not covering up the damage done by wolves as the U.S. gov is...or the wolves support groups..

Well,all you rich, tree hugging, do gooders can live with them now.LOL.

It is only a matter of time until the wolf-worshipper propaganda proves false. As I see it the worshippers have painted themselves into a corner, blocking the wolf management plans. The more the population grows, the more the wolves true nature will become apparent. It will be interesting to watch Lynne Stone and her groupies try to explain away hard evidence of the negative side.

Well if the wolf pack actually takes you down, just concentrate on strangling one of them so you don't die alone.. A Middle Eastern woman recently was attacked by one wolf and she ended up strangling the wolf, and she lived to take care of all them bites she suffered.. A pack recently took out a Georgian Woman (Russia) a couple weeks ago, and there had been wolf attempts on people prior to this woman finally getting it, also this last weekend a Russian Boy was killed by wolves.. This phantom pack is habituating to people...they'll get around to doing the deed sooner or later...It's just nature man...

It is only a matter of time!

www.localnews8.com

Lucky dog and dog owner!

the elkhorn residents that have had a problem with the elk feeding issue ,or grazing of elk on there lawns, will be glad to know that the big dogs that are feeding on the elk east of elkhorn will gladly solve your problem, to be real blunt....they eat ,em all,,,,just dont forget to bring the dog and cat in at night. the elk herds in Idaho are dwindling fast, someone needs to wake up?

How exciting: Nature in the raw. Didn't most of us come to this valley to be closer to nature? To get away from big cities? I have no sympathy for those who move here and then complain about the wildness of the area. And the elk have been coming down into the valleys for centuries. The wild ones were here long before the humans were. Leave them be, don't do stupid things like leaving pets outside unattended, leaving your garbage outside, or planting flora that attracts fauna. Make sure your neighbors do the same and be grateful to be sharing your life with the wild ones.

It wasn't Wolf country until about 2 years ago. LOL

Anyone check this cat for a bullet ! Sumpin aint right ? Elkhorn aint wolf country , Daniel

Wow,
What is it going to take to convince the general public that all of the opinions from the "Wolf advocates", Naive part timers and Coffee table book publishers (Dutcher), is just PROPAGANDA. Canadian Timber Wolves belong in Canada. Just like Jeff Goldbloom said in Jurassic Park, "It's the height of hubris and ignorance to believe that we know better than evolution". Wolves belong in vast open territories like Canada and Alaska where they can pursue Caribou unemcumburred by Highways, Golf Courses, and 3rd home owners jogging with their labs. Idaho may seem wild to Californians, but to an herd following predator like the Canadian Timber Wolf, Idaho is about as wild as Disneyland is to the Bear Jamboree. Don't get me wrong, I love wolves, magnificent, regal animals. But because of twisted agendas by biologist who need STUDY GRANTS and Millionaires looking to get a special on the Discovery Channel, we know have a problem. Ask any Hunter or anyone who spends months in the mountains of Idaho why all the Elk are close to town and on ranches in Bellevue? Food? Yes. But also shelter from the rapidly spreading packs of extremely efficient Canadian Wolves. Duh. Those in the know have been saying it for the last 5 years! Wake up, we already have serious problem. And yes....they kill for sport, not just the sick and the weak.

Though I am not sure if the article is complete or not, I would like to know why the wolves did not feed on the Cougar. I have read that wolves only kill to feed and do not kill for "sport". Which is this? I would rather have a solitary cougar in my back yard over a pack of wolves any day of the week.

I don't disagree with you Superpredator that less game in one area might force predators to hunt in other areas. I wonder if another feasible explanation (at least a seemingly sensible one to me) is that predators are drawn to populated areas due to the abundance of domesticated animals (easy meals) and because we feed the "prey" and draw it here more than it naturally would be. Just a thought.....

Less game in them thar hills means more predations in towns..The couger was willing to eat dog..I bet wolf dogs drove him to it..Some humans might be forced to eat dog soon to...I wonder who will wail the loudest, the lazy you all owe me socialist serf crowd or the human individualist who actually support themselves and do not lust after the fruits of others...Like myself, and Trent...

"Elk Horn is full of capitalist apex predators who are succesful, hopefully you'll be understanding about real apex predators, that share your subdivision."

Wow, what a statement that is! Proof positive that we're on the cusp of a class war. Let's re-distribute all wealth and bring society down to the lowest common denominator.

I f Idaho isn't wild there will be no wilderness.

Two days ago we saw a black wolf that crossed highway 75 just south of Timmerman. We stopped and watched it for a while with the binoculars and while it was exciting to actually see a wolf, I couldn't help but feel some trepidation that these accomplished predators are spreading so quickly. Anyone who is familiar with this valley will know that spotting a wolf in that particular area is very unusual. I'm an animal lover but I can't help but feel that we will need to control the population of wolves to maintain a balance of all of our wild animals.

I feel empathy for this lion. Although it sounds as if he got in trouble w/dogs multiple times this summer, if it's indeed the same individual. Maybe it could have been different had someone coddled the two dead elk by feeding them, before they succumbed. Valley canids dominated the situation. Elk Horn is full of capitalist apex predators who are succesful, hopefully you'll be understanding about real apex predators, that share your subdivision.